Communio Calling
Communio Calling
GSE's Evolving Story
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In our final episode for 2024, we unpack the evolving story of GSE and the journey regarding changes to the governance structure that will come into effect in 2025. Moira Najdecki, Jane Comensoli and Biljana Apostolova join host Gabrielle Sinclair for this important conversation.
Moira, Jane and Biljana share with us the journey of discernment to more clearly articulate and structure the civil identity of Good Samaritan Education to ensure clarity for the community and, importantly, civil regulators. This has resulted in moving to a sole-member model, making necessary changes to the GSE standardised company constitution and reporting mechanisms, and deepening and clarifying our ways of relating to ensure communio.
Welcome to Good Samaritan Education's podcast, Communio Calling. My name's Gabrielle Sinclair, and I'll be your host. Today's episode of Communio Calling examines the journey and detail around some changes in Good Samaritan Education's governance structure. Over the past 18 months, but particularly over the last 12, the Good Samaritan Education community has been called to council to consider whether our structures serve the community and our mission well. A process requiring significant discernment and consultation. Here to walk us through this evolving reality for Good Samaritan Education is Moirina Jecki, Jane Comensoli, and Biliana Apostrolova. Moirina Jecki, the Chair of Good Samaritan Education, has shared her story on Communio Calling before in our Science of the Times episode way back in 2021. And continues to steer the governing council and wears many hats, including the chair of AMPJP, the Association of Ministerial PJPs. Jane Comensoli is the Executive Director of Good Samaritan Education and has been since November 2020. And we'll sadly be finishing up at the beginning of 2025. Jane brought to GSE a broad range of skills from a diverse career that has served our community well, with a heart formed and nourished by her own Good Samaritan Education. Billy Arna Apostrolova is a partner at Melbourne's law firm Gaydens. Billy Arna leads the non-for-profit and tax team with the corporate law group. Billy Arna acts as a principal advisor for numerous charitable organisations, statutory bodies, religious institutions nationally, and their agencies in education. So let's jump into the conversation. So as you know, our podcast communion calling aims to really honour the fabric of our connection through conversation and story and really connecting with the diversity of who we are as Good Samaritan education. So we always start with story. So we have with us today Jane, Viliana and Moira, and we're going to share a little bit differently today because Moira's already been on our podcast and you've heard some of her story. So I'm going to leave her to last. But I'm going to invite Jane and Viliana to tell a little bit of their story, a bit about their influences, how they've come to be, where they are today, family growing up, and perhaps when they first encountered the Good Sam's and the carries and Good Samaritan education. So who'd like to go first? Jane, show me the way.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Viliana. Thanks, Jane. So where to start? I grew up in Coromal, which is just north of Wollongong, and basically went to St. Columkills for my primary school, and that was the Sisters of St. Joseph. And I had the sisters as teachers in years four, five, and six. Probably at that time would have thought of myself as having a very close affiliation to the St. Joseph Sisters. But ironically, even though there was a St. Joseph Convent and school, secondary school around in Belambe, my year six teacher told my mum, don't send Jane there. And so I ended up at St. Mary's in Wollongong. I still don't actually know why she said that, except it was a year 10, only went to Year 10, and St. Mary's went to Year 12. In preparing for this interview, it made me just pause and think a little bit more about my time at St. Mary's. When I went there, I was the only one from my school, so I didn't know anybody, and that was pretty confronting going from a small primary school to this at the time seemed massive. And I remember lining up for year seven class, and we were in beautiful straight lines, and the girl in front of me turned around and introduced herself and said, Hi, I'm Susie. The girl behind me tapped me on the shoulder, introduced herself and said, Hi, I'm Jan. And to this day they're still great friends of mine. And it all started in the year seven line on day one when we knew nobody. So that was quite lovely. When I started with Good Samaritan Education, I said to one of the sisters, my daughters have gone to St. Mary's since. The values of St. Mary's are really apparent now when you walk in and you see the big banners with hope and charity and hospitality and all the banners are very prominent in the hall. And don't quote me, that's probably not what they are, but they're there. And I said to the sisters, when I went to St. Mary's, it was not all that apparent what the values were. Why is that? And the response was, well, we never thought we had to make it explicit, we just lived them. Therefore, it made me think, well, okay, I never really thought of myself as being hugely influenced in those early years at St. Mary's. But when I look back now and think about how it shaped my life, I would change my mind. I think that whole thing about the sisters living the values and modelling the values was very, very apparent. I didn't have any sisters as teachers in years seven and eight, and so that for me was a big change, and I didn't have the sisters as teachers until years nine, ten, eleven, and twelve. But funny enough, the most influential sister was actually never my teacher, and that was Sister Peter Damien. In a couple of ways, I think her influence has really shaped who I am today. We had after school, I don't even know what they called it, whether it's Bible study. And I look back now with the knowledge of today and go, oh, it was actually Lexio, where we would gather in the school library and break open a gospel and talk about what spoke to us. And I remember at the time just finding that just so enriching and so enlightening. I still remember to this day. But she was also very active in terms of having us participate in things outside of the college, and there was a group home just diagonally across from the school. She had a number of us visiting the group home and helping the residents and sitting with them and going to the aged care facility and then taking afternoon tea and morning tea around to the residents. And apart from that, she was a brilliant woman. And I think again that model of having somebody, a woman who is very learned, very forthright in her opinions. And it was only later that I found out that she was an incredible scholar in Latin and all kinds of languages. And I think they're the sorts of things that influenced who I am and who I became. And so when I actually came into this role, I always said it felt like coming home. And I truly feel that. All of those things which influenced me as a teenager, you know, sub-17, were carried all through those years in terms of the modelling of strong women within the church. And I'm very grateful for that experience.
SPEAKER_03How wonderful. What a sliding doors moment of that conversation in primary school of no, don't go there, go here instead, in terms of what has formed and shaped you. Jane, tell us a little bit about your family backgrounds. Growing up, where do you fit in the siblings, or how does that influence who you are?
SPEAKER_02Oh, probably wouldn't surprise anyone to know I'm the eldest. And the only girl. So I have two brothers, and both my mum and dad are teachers. So again, the fit with education seemed very natural. I've got teachers as uncles and aunties and cousins, and the only thing I knew growing up at the time was I didn't want to be a teacher. I'm not quite sure if that was teenage rebellion or what it was. And here you are. That's right. It's a wonderful profession. I actually think my attitude changed when my own children went to school. And you know, then I thought, oh, actually being a teacher, that it is really quite an amazing occupation. But yes, so teaching is very much part of the family. My mum and dad were both country people, so our school holidays are spent either in Walga or Tamworth visiting grandparents and you know, being really attuned, I suppose, to that country way of life because we would spend weeks of a year up there, but also very close in the sense that family home in Tamworth was really the meeting point for all my uncles and aunties and cousins. And so I grew up in a very busy, extended family in that sense that there would be 20 or 30 of us living under the one roof for several weeks of a year, and you learnt to make do and to pitch in and to stay out of trouble. So yeah, it was it was great.
SPEAKER_03Wow, what a wonderful way to grow up in that extended environment. What was the culture of faith like in your early family life?
SPEAKER_02Faith, again, I think not dissimilar in some ways to the Good Samaritan. Both mum and dad hugely faithful, but it's a very practical faith. You know, it was always about being present at the church and pitching in when things were needed, cooking for the refrigerator. My dad, who's 94, still, when he does his weekly shopping, always buys extra things and takes it up to mass on Sunday to leave in the basket for the poor. Mum, her idea of Christianity was to cook a casserole and leave it with someone. So it was you know a very practical Christianity, you know, picking up people who were walking on the side of the road with a big bundle of shopping and total strangers, offering them a lift. So mum and dad really lived their faith in a very practical kind of a way and you know, still is very important to them.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Jane.
SPEAKER_02Oh, and mum hated driving. So our trips to Tamworth always started with the decades of the rosary going up Bully Pass. We're never quite sure what she was praying for, but we all joined in.
SPEAKER_03How wonderful. Well, thanks for sharing part of your story, Jane. Filiana, would you like to share part of your story? What's shaped you over these years?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Very different story to Jane's. I was born and grew up in Macedonia, or more precisely, what was then Yugoslavia and what is now North Macedonia. So country with very rich history, tradition, very deep sense of community, uh, strong family values, family connections, and big families, but also just the region in the Balkans, always political turmoil, always unrest, wars and conflicts was part sort of of the adversity of life. In my early 20s, I was grateful to come and study here in Melbourne, first economics, then law, and have called Melbourne and Australia home ever since. So that was in the late 90s. Growing up in Macedonia, I was raised Christian Orthodox. Again, as I was listening to Jane, I was reflecting how different the faith journey can be depending on the place. And in my childhood, that was communist Yugoslavia. So sort of maintaining faith in a communist system is a very different experience. So mainly happens at home. The influence is mainly grandparents. My grandmother Natalia is known to have secretly christened children, may not have been uh allowed, including my mom. So in my faith journey, matured here in Australia, I got to, I guess, know and inquire more. I journeyed into Catholicism, continued, that sparked my curiosity, and I perhaps not growing up as that. I I wanted to learn more. I undertook some studies in theology, and uh Jane, you'll be happy to know. I will not be giving you any updates on any more assignments. I have submitted my last assignment. Well done. Just completed the diploma in theology with Broken Bay Institute, and that that has been really amazing to understand more about scripture, about mission stewardship and responsibility and and how that waved into life as well as work has been terrific.
SPEAKER_03Wonderful. So I imagine having such a private and home-based faith growing up. Has that changed for you now? I mean, this is a very public forum, I guess, to be talking about a private faith, but how does that look different for you these days?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's incredible. Um we just had the baptism for the three children on Sunday, actually. So a lot of reflection going on. And I can see how they will have a different experience in that, yes, parents as the first educators, but I think to have that continuity of faith at school and embedding that in their education as well as their family, hopefully that will be a different experience for them. So, Gabrielle, uh if I want to uh pick a word, it would be disconnected. It's hard to sort of, you know, go and and live life, and you're sort of in a in an environment where you don't necessarily talk about faith. Well, certainly not as full, and you spend most of your day at school. So it's embraced them list celebrations and events, and perhaps it becomes more of an event type practicing. It's very, very different to the journey I'm living now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think we can all be quite disconnected in our faith sometimes and compartmentalize it. But often it it is sowing the seeds underneath we're not even aware of, but it's our manners sometimes gets pocketed rather than embraced across everything. Well, thank you for sharing part of your story, Biliana. It's lovely to hear. Moira, would you like to share a bit about, well, since being with Good Samaritan Education for some time now, the influence that the charism and working in this environment has had on you over the past few years?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. And as you said earlier, I'd already shared my story. But it was interesting in that I had said that there was no reference to charism whatsoever in any of my primary or high school education, even though my primary school was at St. Benedict's, a Good Sam school, and even though my principal for six years was just a Claire Slattery, who was very influential with the Good Sam's anyway, but charism was never mentioned, so I had no idea about it. And it was 50 or so years after that that I joined GSE and I was introduced to I think the word charism and the actuality of charism. And I think coming into that story was a wonderful gift. And I think it's because the charism of the Good Sams is so timeless. It's down to earth, it's practical. And in the recent years, having attended quite a number of formation sessions, both at assemblies, at meetings, and so on, there have been practical formation sessions as well. I've been led through the whole story of Good Samaritan faith and tradition and so on. And I think probably one of the formation sessions that was almost, I would say, transformative for me was one that was done early on on the reception of guests, and I was still working full-time. And the message I'd received at that particular assembly was that everyone was to be made welcome, and everyone had different gifts, and all of those gifts were to be acknowledged. They were different, but to be acknowledged. And that's not earthshaking. I don't think that's anything particularly new in that, but it gives it such an easy and hospitable reference as you come in contact with other people. And I've said that enacted again and again, quietly, unobtrusively, as I've sort of walked with Good Samaritan education. And I think over the last few years I've received, I've been part of you know lots of those sessions, as I said. We've had introduction to the various chapters of the rule, we've talked about the celery, we've talked about the porter, we've talked about the role of the prior and the prioress, etc. But perhaps one of the most influential of those formation sessions was really the introduction to the prologue. Listen with the ear of your heart. And I think we hear it over and over again as we walk through our journey. But that struck me as really an important way to live your life. And I think the other one that I had was summoning the community for counsel. And I think that's probably sort of what we're going to talk about today a little bit, about the way in which it was so important in the charism that all of the community is to be included in discerning and in important decision making. So there's some of the things I've learnt over the last few years, and that I think that we try and carry forward now. And as I said, I think probably this topic of changing our structure, there's been a whole story in there of seeking the wisdom of the whole community, the counsel of the whole community.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Well, thanks, Maura. Both yourself and Jane alluded to something that's quite in the scheme of the history of the church new in the sense that post-Vatican II, all of the communities were asked to reclaim and be more explicit and intentional about what charism was, who they are, what the identity is. And now for us, with that lived experience in a particular way through the sisters is no longer present in our communities, and we are carrying that forth. The responsibility to be more intentional and more explicit is even more important for us as we continue through. Yeah, we're getting to learn a few things along the way and how to do it differently, but exactly that evolving story that we're part of. So many within Good Samaritan Education's governance community recently have been aware that there is a bit of movement and changes on the horizon for our civil structure. Moira, would you like to give us a bit of an understanding about why the governing council saw a need for change and to make it a priority at this time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'd have to say that it was always quite difficult when you were talking about the structure of Good Samaritan education to explain it to outsiders, but to insiders as well. Because we had governing council members, we had assembly members, we had community members. They're all members, but they all had different roles and responsibilities, and yet we still used the same terminology. We didn't use terms that a lot of other MPJPs use, which are, you know, trustees, sponsors, canonical stewards, etc. We just had members. And the difficulty in people understanding this, I think, was highlighted in the review we did in 2021 when Good Samaritan Education was a decade into its life. And it was one of the recommendations that came out of that review that perhaps we needed a clearer and a simpler structure. So that was one aspect of why we sort of came to that. But I think it's come more to a head in recent years, particularly with changes in governance, in turnover in people in government, and when you're faced with challenging issues, and we have been faced with some challenging issues over the last couple of years, and it said it gave us the message that we needed to be more understood by the church, but more importantly, we needed to be able to make ourselves understood in the secular world. And we had to explain how we meet both our canonical and our civil responsibilities. And so I think that the fact that we have over the past 12 months looked at changing our structure has been predicated on that fact, on the fact that often, in particular in government, when we're trying to sometimes justify ourselves, it's not easy to understand the way in which church works. And so it was very important for us to have a structure that worked, as I said, both civilly and canonically. So I think they've been the two sort of pressure points influencing this interchange.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Moira. Filiana, you've been key part of helping GSE navigate these new realities and helping to hold both those dual identities of canonical and civil. For those coming at this conversation with fresh eyes, can you explain the journey that's been undertaken and some of its complexities?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Moira already touched on some of the perhaps more difficult issues for consideration. One thing that as I reflect on the process, which was undertaken over a solid period of time and with a lot of commitment by a lot of people, it makes me reflect how a constitutional change well done starts with very good listening, with reflective discussions, which then enabled me to draft in a reflective way. It wasn't instructions coming from the council, it was instructions taken from a room where a lot of people expressed opinions and concerns. So it was a really a deep and enriching process where I've learned a lot about the background. I think what was unique in this process also was to appreciate the history of how good Samaritan education, how the constituency of the MPJP sort of was established and then decided to adopt the structure in a particular way. So as we came to look at the constitution today, it was so important to reflect and respect that structure. So it was good in the room to hear from some of the sisters to say, well, we knew and we had advice at that time that we could have gone for a model that we are structuring today. But there was a reason. There was a thought given as to why it wasn't done in the way it was done and tools were already existing, and how much respect was given to local communities. So that I have come into the civil drafting, that was really important to be understood. So it can be reflected in not only preamble and objects, but also in how we've honored that tradition. And more of what you were talking about of making the structure more understood, simplifying that complexity, which if you allowed a lot of time and you understood canon law and civil law, you would work it out. But it it took time to actually come to why certain decisions were rested in particular groups. So I think when we look back now in terms of what we have achieved with the constitution, I think we can say we have ultimately retained the decision making paths, we have retained the design of that governance. Whilst simplifying it civilly. So where the council had particular decision-making power and that canonical role, but it was not expressed directly. But through many steps of those functions being exercised by members in the companies who needed to revert back or represent the council, we have simplified that not only optically, but in terms of procedurally how decisions will be made. But we have honored in various ways not only the intended role of the council, the MPJP, but also the local communities using civil methods. So that that has been a real challenge, and I think it's pleasing to look back on the result and the outcome.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Biliani, because you have really helped us as we've gone through this process, the story of who we are, not just the procedure or the nuts and bolts of the how, but the why. Could you explain a little bit about the specifics of the change from what we're coming from and going to?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So looking at the constitutions of the schools now, we have a single member in all the companies, whereas previously, I should say currently, because the constitutions need to be adopted, but the schools have individuals as members who ultimately, if we trace that membership as we have discussed in our sessions, it ultimately ends up with the governing council of Good Samaritan Education, the Ministerial Public Jurist Person. What we have now achieved is to simplify that membership in each of the companies, all schools being companies limited by guarantee, by making the member the MPJP as it is represented civilly under the Roman Catholic Communities Lens Act, the New South Wales Act, which enables entities like MPJPs to have civil presence. So that has enabled really to centralize the role of a member or the decisions that a member does under a constitution to be directly made in the governing council. So where in the current constitutions we see a lot of decisions, and we have talked about this sort of terminology confusion, which Moira mentioned at the outset, in terms of reference to different types of members, which really are referenced to the terminology in the canonical statutes of GSE to members, what members mean civilly, and then how certain decisions were given to different groups of people. And in particular matters that, for canonical reasons, the approval of the council needed to be sought. So what we see now in terms of streamlining is a singular and simple reference of member as that is understood civilly to be the statutory body that is GSE. And then that then means that when decisions are required to be made by the member, that clearly goes directly to a links to the council. I think that is in terms of membership. And then what we have attempted to do is to preserve consequently really the decisions that were otherwise EMAR for GSE and have reflected through the through the constitution. That's in terms of membership. We have also another challenge. We didn't work with one state only. School registration is a state-based legislation. So we have looked at this in a multi-jurisdictional way to ensure that we are satisfying the requirements of different laws. And as we know, different states across the country have more or less stringent requirements. The decision by GSE has been that the most stringent requirement is picked as really the guide in terms of meeting best practice, if we can say that. And then we have reflected that with variations obviously for legislation in the different states. So it's a common constitution that can work around the place. We have ensured that what's current terminology, contemporary expressions, AC and C, charity registration requirements have all been, again, looked at honored in terms of ensuring most up-to-date expressions of purposes and objects without changing them, but certainly we have spent time on every pocket of the constitution, I think. But things like objects and purposes and statement of careism have then meant that GSE then reflected on what underpins those objects and purposes. And then Jen might want to talk about those related documents, which again it's not restructuring, redefining, it's honoring what's there and building on it and presenting it in a way that allows for what is the reality of changes over time without hopefully without revisiting constitutions because constitution is supposed to stand the test of time. And I think we have thought of that as well, that the constitution works without needing to touch it again in two years' time.
SPEAKER_02And Williana, I think too, there was a wonderful collaboration between yourself and Dr. Roger Austin in terms of the connection and making sure that civil and canonicals sat well together. Would you like to just say a couple of words about that?
SPEAKER_00Yes, obviously I have learned this along the way and have also learned the hard way when I have drafted in my early years what I thought was a perfect constitution to then be looked at by a canonist and say this this absolutely doesn't work. And usually around the membership, and there is such sort of inconsistent outcomes that can arise in terms of can you have a sole membership or not? And RIs and MPJPs, I think, have obviously led the way religious institutes and public jurisdictions have led the way in incorporation of ministries and schools in particular. So I have embarked on those questions much earlier, and in terms of what do the statutes say? Is it a single person making the decision and when does the person consult, or when does the person sort of require approval for certain acts of administration from others, and that really informs how membership should look. So one of the first things that I ask Jane is whether a canalist will be available as a draft. So I could not obviously be more grateful than having worked with Dr. Roger Austin. And that has been a true, I don't think we have ever had any discussion on the constitution or a meeting without Roger present. And that has been good. He has really challenged me to retrain myself in using the terminology of reserve powers. That's, I think, a learning and a journey that thinking about where that is appropriate and understanding about your context and structure and what it means. And I think that has really helped as we have drafted to not say, well, this is what's usually in a list of reserve powers. Actually go one by one and say, does this talk to the specialist?
SPEAKER_03And I think that that relationship and that continual conversation between Roger and yourself is very much at the heart of who we are, too. It's very much an example of who we are in practice. And communio and relationships always sit at the core of Good Samaritan education. Jane, can you tell us a little bit about how this new structural change will enhance and build communio for us?
SPEAKER_02Community is at the heart of who we are, and that's through both the rule of Saint Benedict and the lives of the sisters. And I think as we embarked on this journey, the biggest fear of governing council was how do we ensure that communio is maintained? And it was interesting when we had our first community consultation at the March Assembly that that similar fear came through much of the conversation. Yes, we understand logically what's being changed, but when you make these changes, please be sure that you retain community. And I think that feeds into what Viljana has been describing as that process of discernment as we've gone through. And so you'll see within the constitution that there are certain things that can only take place after consultation with schools, and they're those things which are at the heart of who we are, things like the statements that we've developed together and release and which shape the charism and the culture of our schools. So that's in the constitution. But the constitution, in a sense, is just the framework or the scaffolding of what takes place. And so a real part of this journey that we've undertaken together is to understand what are the pieces that we have to build around the constitution, which really become the building blocks of how we'll work together. And that's been a very rich conversation because if I reflect back in March, we said, guess what? You know, if we've got sole membership, we don't need to have an annual general meeting. And that sounded wonderful because of all of the formalities that are associated with that. But very quickly, everyone in the room came to the decision, but we actually still need to have a meeting and we still need to be able to share. So the conversations have since evolved to, well, okay, we're going to have these meetings, what will they look like? And there was a very strong sense coming from everyone that we really need meetings that are going to enhance dialogue. We need meetings that really share mutual understanding. We need meetings that allow mutual support between parts of our community. And so sitting around the Constitution, we've developed a range of policies, procedures, protocols that really have only one intent, and that intent is to make sure that we continue to have the right people working with our schools, that we continue to have opportunities for deep connections, that we continue to use the right processes around decision making that honour the discernment of the community. So there's probably been as much or more work taking place in those things that sit around the Constitution as with the Constitution itself. But I think what's been really satisfying and enriching has been the many conversations that have been taking place where it's actually forced us to articulate clearly and be very explicit about what's important to us, what matters to us, what has to be preserved, and what we want that future to look like in terms of the relationships. And for me, it always comes back to the relationships. You can have any structure you like, and it will either work or not work based on relationships. And I think that that's really the great strength of Good Samaritan education. I think Moira said at the beginning, you know, when things are tough, that's really when you need to have that foundation of common values, common understanding, common identity, good information sharing, and strong relationships because that's the wisdom of the group that allows you to then work through things and move forward. And I think we come from having demonstrated that we've made some mistakes along the way, don't get me wrong. But I think the fact that we've got through things like land tenure and the stewardship agreements and we have continued to maintain the strength of who we are, I think is a testament to what we have, but also what we want to preserve going forward.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. By the nature of how old our community is at the moment, that there's had to be some reimagining of things and re-looking at some of the things that were set up at the beginning and the last couple of years going, okay, hang on, that doesn't serve us all well at the moment, and having to have those really hard conversations, sometimes it gets messy. But there has been that beautiful reality of people not leaving the table, that at every moment there is this will and generosity of spirit continues to call us all around the table and to work through it as a community. I guess this is an opportunity now to look at some of the misconceptions and kind of clear the table that people have hung on to and not been able to kind of grasp in what's coming in this new kind of environment. What are some of the things that people are still concerned about that might be a misconception that we can help them give them clarity over?
SPEAKER_02I think from my perspective, the two that I'm seeing coming through. One is a member representative, so the sole member representative, and certainly that will be usually a person from governing council, which is proper because that will be the direct relationship of decision maker and canonical steward with the school, and I think that's great. But because we want everybody who is a member of GSC to have an association with a school and to be part of that conduit and that richness of sharing, there will be at least a second member. And so, you know, I've been asked, well, how is that different to what we already have? And the answer to that is it's same, same different because yes, there will be more than one in actual fact who is connected with your school. But for us, there was that sense of how important that was to really make sure that we continue to have that local community knowledge and engagement and connection at all levels. But the key difference being that it is the sole member representative from governing council, who is really the one who constitutionally has the responsibilities of the member. So the day-to-day experience will be very similar, but the constitutional requirement is different to what it was. So I think that's a really interesting one, and one which I think as people work within it, it will become much clearer how that works. But essentially preserving local relationship, which was so important in our discussions. And then, of course, the second one is the member direction. And I think that one also will be one which experience will really allay fears. In the old constitution, there was certainly a requirement that schools follow the policies, procedures, and protocols of Good Samaritan Education, and they were undefined. So in this new constitution, we've used what's called a member direction to be clear as to which of those apply, because it's certainly not every policy procedure, but it has raised concerns at school level around shadow director. And I might pass over to Viliana on that one because she's written quite extensively for us on the fears around shadow directorship.
SPEAKER_00Sure. You stole my thunder, Jane. I was going to talk about direction. And those were my takeaways from all those discussions around member representative. And I found that interesting because it stemmed from that community-based membership, individuals as groups which are local, and then that concern of what does it mean that we'll have this statutory body now as a member and how we're going to have that connection. Again, that was probably a new for me. Often I hear that reflection when there might be an individual, say religious institute, provincial, a religious leader as a direct member, and then all of a sudden an entity is interposed when they're created. So that was your original process. You went through that and didn't interpose a single entity. So I guess that's the legacy of the way in which you've done things, and often the reflections I have heard is who are we dealing with? And are we dealing with another corporate board? So I think, Jane, what we have also achieved just on that point is that we have allowed for that local customization, which is you still achieve those outcomes in terms of the consultation and having a connection with GSE that will be alive to the local issues that does not take away from then sort of uninformed decision making, which I thought was a really good place to end. And then in terms of the direction of member provision, it is not an uncommon reflection or feedback that whenever there is a school member that has such significant authority or power to direct a member that are they taking the role of a shadow director. And much has been discussed on that. Well, first of all, we say the way we have designed your provision and we have taken some feedback, so it's again bespoke for your circumstances, is to say it's not really a directive in a way where a council of GSE will just tell a board of a school what to do. It's again a process which cannot happen unless there is an engagement consultation and an explanation to the board as to the purpose, the intention, and the necessity for such direction. So that really forces GSE to be intentional, but also inform itself in making a direction that it's not really taking the place of a board. So that provision is also customized to say that when GSE is to be taking a direction, that it needs to be respectful of the fiduciary duties of the directors, and it cannot be inconsistent with such duties. So it cannot prejudice, obviously, charity registration, it cannot prejudice other registrations like the school registration. And another addition that we have made from the listening consultation forums is that it also doesn't cause the board to breach any law. So we have taken those, but that's what's in the constitution. And ultimately, so the outcome in terms of shadow directorships is one of, I guess, facts, it's a factoral or functional, I think, as we've said, inquiry into what has happened and what's the kind of the direction. Having the power itself or the authority itself doesn't make GSE a shadow director. And from my engagement with many entities of this nature, religious institutes and MPJPs are alive to the issue. And I don't think there is interest in taking the place of the board. The focus is on really maintaining charism and maintaining the particular identity of the school and the direction is really issued in that context. And provided so we have put brakes and we have put a framework to ensure that that's not an outcome for GSE, so that GSE can manage its own exposure, that it doesn't act as a shadow director, and then really the consequences of that is whether there is a breach of duties that then exposes GSE. I think GSE is there to support the schools, to provide that ownership framework, ownership scaffolding, and then guidance. And we have made it very clear throughout the constitution that that's the role.
SPEAKER_01I was going to say, just in terms of Jane was talking about the roles of the members, and you asked about how it is enhanced. And I think previously one of our problems was we had assembly members who weren't on governing council and therefore caught in the middle with the school, and they were our representatives at the school and they belonged to the school, but they weren't really up to date in terms of what was happening with governing council. And I think this new structure where everybody who is going to be part of a school is actually either on governing council or they are assembly members, and therefore they know much more intimately what's happening at the governance level at any time. I think the other change has been that previously people always belonged to two schools, and now they're only going to belong to one school. Belonging to two was good because you you sort of had a bit of a wider sense, but there'd be much more intense, I guess, relationship now with the fact that the sole member who is going to come from the governing council and the other person who is part of the assembly are just part of one school. So I think that will enhance the whole relationship as well.
SPEAKER_03I think in listening to some of the conversations, that it appeared to me that some of the concerns of there being a loss of close relationship was also in some ways caught up in a grief of sisters no longer being there. It was both historical and an increasing reality as the sisters are no longer present there. So who's going to actually know us? Who is really going to know who we are and our story? And I think that's being able to reassure the schools and show them that this is in fact part of the reality of what we're trying to achieve better, that somebody knows you, knows your story, can advocate for you in a deeper way, is at the crux of this reality. So moving forward, what are then the key relationships that will be different with the schools from next year onwards?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that one of them will be that they'll know exactly the people who are going to be associated with this school. Previously there might have been four company members, etc. Now there'll be the two members, so they'll know those people. I think that will make it clearer for them and easier in some ways.
SPEAKER_02I think one of the key things around this is particularly around some of the meetings that are stipulated, to understand that nothing's set in stone. And I think that's also really important. If we honour the conversation, those meetings are certainly part of the governing council and members of GSE accountability. So there will always be small accountability. But the real intent of them was for deeper conversations that really explored in a very meaningful way the kinds of challenges, hopes, and dreams of a school. And I think that in these relationships, like every relationship, as it matures and develops, and people's familiarity. With the intentionality is, I expect and would hope to see that over time these things will not perhaps change hugely, but that we'll have that continual reflective process to make sure that we're using these things to ensure that that relationship is strong, that it's deep, that it's based on rich respect and information sharing, and that at all times it's really alive to both our identity individually and collectively, but our values as good Samaritan education. So I think if we think of it as something that is organic and not something that's fixed, I think that there's relationships that we're reconfiguring, they're not new, but they're just slightly reconfigured, but it does offer a really big opportunity to strengthen aspects of what we want to collectively achieve.
SPEAKER_00I think those the review and stewardship meetings being bespoke feature that replace what is no longer mandatory annual general meeting, again have taught to them where it looks procedural, where there is requirement for notice and for quorum. But that was informed by GSE really saying this will only work if the board participates. So they're there to initiate and set that there is already a practice, I understand, but then the constitution embeds a process that relationship will be ongoing and that there is at least those two formal meetings, one that looks at the year in review and one that looks forward, what's to come. I think that's also very special.
SPEAKER_03I think this very real challenge of evolving and becoming with GSE now in her tween years is really understanding her own full reality and unique identity. Just like a child that's unique from the very beginning but is still forming and becoming.
SPEAKER_01I think I already said mine, which was listen with the ear of the heart. And I think if we could do that, and I have to be reminded, I have to remind myself all the time that that is what's important, and I think what we've talked about today with relationships, etc., is about the heart. So that would be my quote.
SPEAKER_03I love the translation that says incline with the ear of the heart. So it's this old body in requirement to kind of lean in and listen with all of yourself. Thanks, Myra.
SPEAKER_02I think for me it's the little quote, it's so little, but it's so deep, that the strong have something to strive for and the weak have nothing to hide from, because I think that's really at the heart of community that we are really creating or endeavouring to create, because that's it's organic, something for everyone. And everyone is not just about governance, it's also about our students and our families and the communities in which we reside. And for me, that's the whole purpose of why we're here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we can hold each other in our strength and in our weakness. Thanks, Jane. Biliana, what about you? You may not be quite as familiar with the rulers that we are.
SPEAKER_00I think there was one which was about patience, I mean hardship, which I really liked. But just as you asked the question, I did scroll through my messages, Jane, because as I was working on one assignment, I found an extract which I really liked about Benedict. So I'll I'll just share a snippet of that because it talked about how by accidents of history, the name of Benedict has become associated with austerity and learning, and how he never had that as an intent. That all did he prescribed hours of work, it says here, because he wished to preserve his monks from the corrosion of character that results from idleness. But he never thought that he did not foresee the astonishing achievements of the medieval and modern Benedictine scholars in the field of education and research, which I thought was just such a nice sort of almost accidental, but just by focusing on not being idle and doing something with your time and being focused, what astonishing results can achieve. So I really like that and I share it with Jane. So I thought I would like to share here. Thanks, Biliana.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you, all three of you, for giving a bit of time today to break this open as we continue to evolve this story that is good Samaritan education. Thank you. And our story continues with many hands. Together on the journey, we co-create what we have been gifted in our Ministry of Catholic Education. I think it might be a nice moment to just finish our year in prayer together. The guiding presence, God in all things. As we ground ourselves in our mission responsibilities with your help, we seek to uphold a culture and ethos that is nurtured and informed by our founding stories and traditions, to faithfully steward our governance responsibilities, ensuring that all our neighbours within and beyond our community are embraced and nurtured. God, life giving spirit, give fire to our words and strength to our witness. Now and always. Amen.
